Saturday, December 31, 2011

FOX NEWS says it ain't so

"We have many advantages in the fight against global warming, but time is not one of them. Instead of idly debating the precise extent of global warming, or the precise timeline of global warming, we need to deal with the central facts of rising temperatures, rising waters, and all the endless troubles that global warming will bring. We stand warned by serious and credible scientists across the world that time is short and the dangers are great. The most relevant question now is whether our own government is equal to the challenge."

~JOHN MCCAIN, speech, May 12, 2008



Climate change and the methane time bomb.

Visit msnbc.com for breaking news, world news, and news about the economy







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Thursday, December 22, 2011

Monday, December 19, 2011

Courage

One man with courage is a majority.
~Thomas Jefferson

Uploaded by PensacolaDigest on Dec 16, 2011
Father Nathan Monk tells the City Council, "We have the right to redress our government without fear of being arrested," and is nearly arrested. Read the article:


"Monk had not raised his voice or threatened anybody. He merely stated in no uncertain terms that the government violated the civil liberties of several citizens who had spoken in opposition to proposed anti-homeless ordinances earlier in the week.

The council took umbrage and had the citizens removed after they made comparisons between the ordinances and Heinrich Himmler’s Final Solution.

“As Americans, we have the right to redress our government without fear of being arrested,” said Monk. “Whether or not they’re connecting dots from Hitler to George Wallace to Barney … you should be asking, ‘well what are we doing that’s allowing people to connect those dots?’ It was a sick and gross abuse of power.”

Council President Hall interrupted Monk. “Your time is up, sit down,” he said.

“No, I have a minute and 12 seconds left,” Monk said as he glanced at the timer on the speaker’s lectern.

“I’m ruling you out of order,” Hall said.

At that point the council had cops flank Monk.

The priest was not arrested and two council members stormed off in protest of the obvious dictatorial behavior of their fellow members.

The incident is more evidence that government – from the federal government all the way down to state and local government – is increasingly out of control and often flagrantly violates the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. It treats citizens like subjects to be abused, culled for “revenue enhancement,” victimized by militarized police, and taxed relentlessly." Kurt Nimmo

Infowars.com
December 19, 2011









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Wednesday, November 30, 2011

Income inequality in the United States is higher than in any other advanced industrial democracy

The rich are always going to say that, you know, just give us more money and we'll go out and spend more and then it will all trickle down to the rest of you. But that has not worked the last 10 years, and I hope the American public is catching on.
~Warren Buffett

"The U.S. economy appears to be coming apart at the seams. Unemployment remains at nearly ten percent, the highest level in almost 30 years; foreclosures have forced millions of Americans out of their homes; and real incomes have fallen faster and further than at any time since the Great Depression. Many of those laid off fear that the jobs they have lost -- the secure, often unionized, industrial jobs that provided wealth, security, and opportunity -- will never return. They are probably right.

And yet a curious thing has happened in the midst of all this misery. The wealthiest Americans, among them presumably the very titans of global finance whose misadventures brought about the financial meltdown, got richer. And not just a little bit richer; a lot richer. In 2009, the average income of the top five percent of earners went up, while on average everyone else's income went down. This was not an anomaly but rather a continuation of a 40-year trend of ballooning incomes at the very top and stagnant incomes in the middle and at the bottom. The share of total income going to the top one percent has increased from roughly eight percent in the 1960s to more than 20 percent today.

This is what the political scientists Jacob Hacker and Paul Pierson call the "winner-take-all economy." It is not a picture of a healthy society. Such a level of economic inequality, not seen in the United States since the eve of the Great Depression, bespeaks a political economy in which the financial rewards are increasingly concentrated among a tiny elite and whose risks are borne by an increasingly exposed and unprotected middle class. Income inequality in the United States is higher than in any other advanced industrial democracy and by conventional measures comparable to that in countries such as Ghana, Nicaragua, and Turkmenistan. It breeds political polarization, mistrust, and resentment between the haves and the have-nots and tends to distort the workings of a democratic political system in which money increasingly confers political voice and power.

It is generally presumed that economic forces alone are responsible for this astonishing concentration of wealth. Technological changes, particularly the information revolution, have transformed the economy, making workers more productive and placing a premium on intellectual, rather than manual, labor. Simultaneously, the rise of global markets -- itself accelerated by information technology -- has hollowed out the once dominant U.S. manufacturing sector and reoriented the U.S. economy toward the service sector. The service economy also rewards the educated, with high-paying professional jobs in finance, health care, and information technology. At the low end, however, jobs in the service economy are concentrated in retail sales and entertainment, where salaries are low, unions are weak, and workers are expendable...." Foreign Affairs




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Thursday, October 20, 2011

more deregulation of the banking industry

'Wall Street bonuses at banks bailed out by Washington are "a very elegant form of theft."'
Author Michael Lewis, Liar's Poker

"Wall Street banks, many which received government bailouts in 2008, saw higher bonuses in 2009. Even though profits returned robustly in 2009, the bonus pools still fell short of the banner year of 2007.

For example, Goldman Sachs, the poster child for excessive pay, paid out $16.2 billion in 2009, ahead of the $10.9 billion it paid in 2008, but still well below the record $20 billion it set aside for compensation in 2007.

"Really what's going on is the people on the top of the firm want to make a lot of money and if they're going to make a lot of money, they have got to pay the people under them a lot of money," Lewis said.

"So it's a very elegant form of theft right now." Reuters.com

2009, 2010 saw more of the same and so will 2011.


See for yourself and decide. Is more deregulation of the banking industry a good thing or does it hurt America and benefit the very few and do harm to the many? See the videos from a Russian TV perspective. Remember the world is watching.

"Not talking to you Monkey". One percenter call protester monkey.



Police abuse of protesters in NYC






Woman pepper sprayed in the face because she was there. Koch brothers be proud. This what you they want to happen to the "Monkeys."














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Thursday, September 29, 2011

Christians should rule the world.

Christianity is completely and radically anti-democratic; it is committed to spiritual aristrocracy.
~R.J. Rushdoony, Reconstructionist theologian, from _The Religious Right: The Assault on Tolerance and Pluralism In America.


Christian Candidates for Christian Domination
Michele Bachmann and Rick Perry aren't just devout—both have deep ties to a fringe fundamentalist movement known as Dominionism, which says Christians should rule the world.

With Tim Pawlenty out of the presidential race, it is now fairly clear that the GOP candidate will either be Mitt Romney or someone who makes George W. Bush look like Tom Paine. Of the three most plausible candidates for the Republican nomination, two are deeply associated with a theocratic strain of Christian fundamentalism known as Dominionism. If you want to understandMichele Bachmann and Rick Perry, understanding Dominionism isn’t optional.
Put simply, Dominionism means that Christians have a God-given right to rule all earthly institutions. Originating among some of America’s most radical theocrats, it’s long had an influence on religious-right education and political organizing. But because it seems so outré, getting ordinary people to take it seriously can be difficult. Most writers, myself included, who explore it have been called paranoid. In a contemptuous 2006 First Things review of several books, including Kevin Phillips’ American Theocracy, and my own Kingdom Coming: The Rise of Christian Nationalism, conservative columnist Ross Douthat wrote, “the fear of theocracy has become a defining panic of the Bush era.”
Now, however, we have the most theocratic Republican field in American history, and suddenly, the concept of Dominionism is reaching mainstream audiences. Writing about Bachmann in The New Yorker this month, Ryan Lizza spent several paragraphs explaining how the premise fit into the Minnesota congresswoman’s intellectual and theological development. And a recent Texas Observer cover story on Rick Perry examined his relationship with the New Apostolic Reformation, a Dominionist variant of Pentecostalism that coalesced about a decade ago. “[W]hat makes the New Apostolic Reformation movement so potent is its growing fascination with infiltrating politics and government,” wrote Forrest Wilder. Its members “believe Christians—certain Christians—are destined to not just take ‘dominion’ over government, but stealthily climb to the commanding heights of what they term the ‘Seven Mountains’ of society, including the media and the arts and entertainment world.”
In many ways, Dominionism is more a political phenomenon than a theological one. It cuts across Christian denominations, from stern, austere sects to the signs-and-wonders culture of modern megachurches. Think of it like political Islamism, which shapes the activism of a number of antagonistic fundamentalist movements, from Sunni Wahabis in the Arab world to Shiite fundamentalists in Iran.
Dominionism derives from a small fringe sect called Christian Reconstructionism, founded by a Calvinist theologian named R. J. Rushdoony in the 1960s. Christian Reconstructionism openly advocates replacing American law with the strictures of the Old Testament, replete with the death penalty for homosexuality, abortion, and even apostasy. The appeal of Christian Reconstructionism is, obviously, limited, and mainstream Christian right figures like Ralph Reed have denounced it. More at the Daily Beast



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Friday, August 19, 2011

Most Americans don't realize how unequal our country really is

"A profound political question is suddenly on the table: Must the country continue to give precedence to private financial gain and market determinism over human lives and broad public values?"
~William Greider


PBS' Making Sen$e: 'Land of the Free, Home of the Poor'


Watch the full episode. See more PBS NewsHour.


"Making Sen$e correspondent Paul Solman reports on the extreme inequality in the U.S. It's now on par with African dictatorships. In a telling moment after interviewing a recent immigrant from Haiti, where she says the American Dream isn't something she feels she'll ever have, Solman says, "The U.S. looks unequal to a Haitian?"

He then looks into a recent study about wealth in the U.S. "The first constant finding," Solman says. "Most Americans don't realize how unequal our country really is."

Yay for non-profit media." Crooksandliars.com

MORE









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Thursday, August 18, 2011

Rick Perry and the porno industry investment

Whatever you condemn, you have done yourself.
~Georg Groddeck, The Book of the It, 1950



The more you scratch Rick Perry the more you uncover. From The Left blog, a report on Rick Perry's involvement in the porno industry. So much for abstinence, family values and being squeaky clean.



"EXPOSED: TX Gov. Rick Perry Owned Thousands of Dollars in Porno Distributor Company"

Thursday, August 18, 2011

"They say you should never shit where you eat. In TX Gov. Rick “I’m a Prophet” Perry’s case, I would tweak that phrase to read, you shouldn’t preach abstinence when you own thousands of dollars in porno stock.

Perry, the latest GOP presidential candidate to jump into the race, owned five-to-ten thousand dollars worth of stock in Movie Gallery, a company that at one time was the nation’s largest distributor of pornography in America. Their titles included:

Teens with Tits Vol. 1
Teen Power Vol. 4
Teens Never Say No
Big Tit Brotha Lovers 6
Bisexual Barebacking Vol. 1

These films do not promote abstinence or safe-sex.

Perry’s close friends at the American Family Association boycotted the Movie Gallery in 2000 until the business finally shut down in 2010. I wonder if the American Family Association knew the pride of Texas, Gov. Rick Perry owned thousands of dollars of stock in a porno distributor they were committed to closing?

And why isn’t the mainstream media reporting any of this?" From The Left



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Ex-Evangelical Denounces Michele Bachmann & Calls Christian Reconstructionist Politics "Anti-American"

“The religious right that I was part of is fundamentally anti-American. They hate this country. They wrap themselves in the flag, but they hate America as it is."
~Frank Schaeffer

Ex-Evangelical Denounces Michele Bachmann & Calls Christian Reconstructionist Politics "Anti-American"

" ... a former evangelical Christian, Frank Schaeffer, whose father’s writings and work played a key role in the religious development of Republican presidential candidate Michele Bachmann. Frank Schaeffer recently wrote an article titled "Michele Bachmann Was Inspired by My Dad and His Christian Reconstructionist Friends — Here’s Why That’s Terrifying." Schaeffer’s father was Francis Schaeffer, one of the nation’s most influential evangelical Christian theologians and philosophers in the 1970s and 1980s. In a recent profile in The New Yorker magazine, Bachmann reveals she entered politics after watching Francis Schaeffer’s film, "How Should We Then Live?" The film was directed by his son, Frank, our guest today. "[Bachmann] doesn’t just come from the far right of evangelical politics. She comes from a fringe even of the fringe, which is the Reconstructionist, Dominionist movement," Schaeffer says. “The religious right that I was part of is fundamentally anti-American. They hate this country. They wrap themselves in the flag, but they hate America as it is." Democracy Now







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Tuesday, August 16, 2011

The barbarians are rising

“The governor of Texas should not be initiating a Christians-only prayer.”
~Barry Lynn, executive director of Americans United for Separation of Church and State, according to the Post. Washington Post


Author H. Beam Piper, science fiction writer, in his work Space Vikings speaks of the barbarians from within society. "He says, even at their worst, they are in engaged in honest butchery compared to the nefarious do-gooders and do-nothings."

"The barbarians are rising . . . Every society rests on a barbarian base. The people who don't understand civilization, and wouldn't like it if they did. The hitchhikers. The people who create nothing, and who don't appreciate what others have created for them, and who think civilization is something that just exists and that all they need to do is enjoy what they can understand of it --- luxuries, high living standards, and easy work for high pay . . .

It wasn't the war that put Hitler into power. It was the fact that the ruling class of his nation, the people who keep things running, were discredited. The masses, the homemade barbarians, didn't have anybody to take their responsibilities for them."

We see this today in America. The rich, powerful and banksters make nothing. They live on dividends and interest. They are the hitchhikers. The barbarians, the Tea Party, know nothings who want to wreck the American society because they are "the people who don't understand civilization, and wouldn't like it if they did." They are led by Rick Perry, Michele Bachmann and Herman Cain. The others Mitt Romney and Jon Huntsman and Ron Paul have a degree of integrity but are still willing to sell their souls to the devil.

If a man like Rick Perry or a woman like Michele Bachmann can reach the white house we are finished as a nation. The day of a statesman leading America will have been over.






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Monday, August 15, 2011

the country's young population is ugly, aggressive, vicious, badly educated, uncouth and criminally inclined because they're marginalised

Do not waste your time on Social Questions. What is the matter with the poor is Poverty; what is the matter with the rich is Uselessness.
~George Bernard Shaw


A friend recently wrote the following about the riots in the U.K. While it is easy to just say it is a criminal element, it is more, it is the social breakdown and disenfranchisement of the poor and lower classes.
"I've also been closely following the riots in London, Manchester and elsewhere in
Britain. Frankly it comes as no surprise to me and my fellow Mancunians
when I see what is happening. These recent incidents appear to be a
backhanded tribute to the long-term intellectual torpor, moral cowardice,
incompetence and careerist opportunism of the British political and
intellectual class.
For years, politicians of all parties but especially those with a Tory
bent, have somehow managed not to notice what has long been apparent to
anyone who has taken a short walk with his eyes open down any British city
street: that a considerable proportion of the country's young population
is ugly, aggressive, vicious, badly educated, uncouth and criminally
inclined because they're marginalised. British youth leads the Western
world in almost all aspects of social pathology, from teenage pregnancy to
drug taking, from drunkenness to violent criminality. In many northern
constituencies, British kids are much likelier to have a television in
their bedroom than a father living at home. One-third of them never eat a
meal at a table with another member of their household and 'family' is not
the word for the social arrangements of the people in the areas from which
the rioters mainly come. So this is what happens. And it's going to get
worse if the British National Party (neo-nazi racists) get involved and
play the immigrant/race card."











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Tuesday, August 9, 2011

Democracy and justice in the balance

“You may fool all the people some of the time, you can even fool some of the people all of the time, but you cannot fool all of the people all the time.”
~Abraham Lincoln
(A lesson the Tea Party needs to learn)



Wisconsin recall elections put state senate in balance

"On Tuesday in Wisconsin Americans will have the chance to reverse the mistakes of the last election. Americans are taking action. It is not lost on people across the country. It is a movement by the middle class to oust the far right and their mean spirited policies that hurt the middle class, the poor, veterans and seniors." BBC.co.uk





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Monday, August 8, 2011

It is a fight for working class America

“The men the American people admire most extravagantly are the most daring liars; the men they detest most violently are those who try to tell them the truth.”
~Henry Louis Mencken

It has been a long time between demonstrations. It was fun, worth while and necessary. It is a fight for working class America. Rep, Grimm N.Y. supports the rich and powerful and has acted against the middle class and supports policies that would gut Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid.


"STATEN ISLAND, N.Y. -- A large number of protesters gathered outside Rep. Michael Grimm's New Dorp office this afternoon, expressing their disappointment in the Republican's vote on the debt ceiling.
...demonstrators took part, chanting and holding signs that read "Where are the jobs?" and "Restore the American Promise."
Protesters lined up across the street from Grimm's 265 New Dorp Lane office."
*******











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Sunday, August 7, 2011

donkeys leading lions

"To be conservative, then, is to prefer the familiar to the unknown, to prefer the tried to the untried, fact to mystery, the actual to the possible, the limited to the unbounded, the near to the distant, the sufficient to the superabundant, the convenient to the perfect, present laughter to utopian bliss."
~Michael Joseph Oakeshott (Rationalism in Politics and Other Essays)



This is what happens when extremists get into office. They have no concept how to govern, they lack a knowledge of history and they hurt our country. These people are NOT THE BEST OR BRIGHTEST, they are in fact the worst and dumbest. We are now paying a price for their ignorance and intransigence. This is a case of donkeys leading lions.

"For the first time in history, the U.S. credit rating has been downgraded.

This "tea party downgrade" is a shameful blow to our nation's honor and risks throwing us right back into recession. Worst of all? It was completely avoidable.



But when given the choice between extremist posturing and responsible leadership, tea party Republicans chose wrong. And now, amazingly, they're trying to pin the blame on Democrats.

John Boehner and the rest of the Republicans hurt our economy and the whole country needs to know it." MoveOn.org








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Tuesday, August 2, 2011

The debt limit fight is over, but the fight over entitlement programs will continue for months.

“The result [Republicans winning the Senate] would be devastating for reproductive choice, the environment, civil liberties, Social Security and health care, as well as corporate accountability.”
~Barbra Streisand



Pelosi: My Deficit Committee Members Will Oppose All Entitlement Benefit Cuts

"The debt limit fight is over, but the fight over entitlement programs will continue for months. In the weeks ahead, the leaders of both parties in both the House and Senate will name three members each to a new committee tasked with reducing the deficit by at least $1.2 trillion.

The ultimate makeup of that committee is key. It will determine whether this Congress will pass further fiscal legislation, and, thus, what the major themes of the 2012 election will be.

At a pre-recess press conference Tuesday afternoon, TPM asked House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi (D-CA) whether the people she appoints to the committee will make the same stand she made during the debt limit fight -- that entitlement benefits -- as opposed to provider payments, waste and other Medicare spending -- should be off limits.

In short, yes."

More from TPM





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Wednesday, July 27, 2011

Speaker Boehner’s New Proposal Could Produce Greatest Increase in Poverty and Hardship of Any Law in Modern U.S. History

"Conservatives say if you don't give the rich more money, they will lose their incentive to invest. As for the poor, they tell us they've lost all incentive because we've given them too much money."
~George Carlin



House Speaker John Boehner’s new budget proposal would essentially require, as the price of raising the debt ceiling again early next year, a choice between deep cuts in the years immediately ahead in Social Security and Medicare benefits for current retirees, repeal of health reform’s coverage expansions, or wholesale evisceration of basic assistance programs for vulnerable Americans.
The plan is, thus, tantamount to a form of “class warfare.” If enacted, it could well produce the greatest increase in poverty and hardship produced by any law in modern U.S. history. More

**********

Constitutional Balanced Budget Amendment: Unwise Policy
"A balanced budget amendment to the U.S. Constitution — including the version that the House is expected to consider this week — would be a highly ill-advised way to address the nation’s long-term fiscal problems. It would threaten significant economic harm while raising a host of problems for the operation of Social Security and other vital federal functions. The economic problems are the most serious, and they would pertain to any version of a constitutional balanced budget amendment. By requiring a balanced budget every year, no matter the state of the economy, such an amendment would raise serious risks of tipping weak economies into recession and making recessions longer and deeper, causing very large job losses."








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Tuesday, July 26, 2011

George Orwell is rolling over in his grave, or just maybe he is smiling, like he knew that.

"The most effective way to destroy people is to deny and obliterate their own understanding of their history."
~George Orwell



Orwell Rolls in His Grave at the Misleading Spectacle of the Corporate Media


MARK KARLIN FOR BUZZFLASH AT TRUTHOUT

"Ignorance isn't bliss, or so we are learning as political discourse based on misinformation plays itself out in the corporate mass media and the halls of Congress.

As the narrator/director of the cult classic documentary, "Orwell Rolls in His Grave," asks: "Could a media system, controlled by a few global corporations with the ability to overwhelm all competing voices, be able to turn lies into truth?"

The answer, of course, is yes." more at BUZZFLASH.COM







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Glenn Beck says Norway camp like 'Hitler Youth' - Boston.com

Glenn Beck says Norway camp like 'Hitler Youth' - Boston.com
The man is a moron.

President Obama Says Call Congress; People Respond | Crooks and Liars

President Obama Says Call Congress; People Respond | Crooks and Liars

Friday, July 22, 2011

Rep. Moran: The GOP is the ‘Know-Nothing Party;’ ‘They Just Don’t Know, They Don’t Care’

"A conservative is a fellow who thinks a rich man should have a square deal."
~Frank Dane

Rep. Moran: The GOP is the ‘Know-Nothing Party;’ ‘They Just Don’t Know, They Don’t Care’: "pSpeaking with ThinkProgress today, Rep. Jim Moran (D-VA) offered a take on the reasons behind House Republicans’ obstinacy on the debt ceiling. Describing it as the “the party of denial,” Moran compared the current GOP to the historical, nativist “Know-Nothing party” that, incidentally, wanted to restrict types of immigrants and have daily bible readings in [...]/p"





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Saturday, July 16, 2011

How Rupert Murdoch’s Money Helps Him Makes Friends - The Daily Beast

“The tyranny of a prince in an oligarchy is not so dangerous to the public welfare as the apathy of a citizen in a democracy”
~Charles de Montesquieu



How Rupert Murdoch’s Money Helps Him Makes Friends - The Daily Beast

"The vast majority of Murdoch’s money goes to Republican candidates and causes. In 2010, News Corp. donated an eye-popping $1.25 million to the Republican Governors Association and $1 million to the Chamber of Commerce."

Wednesday, July 13, 2011

Time Warp: Republican Committee Chairman Blames Current Lack Of Job Creation On FDR And LBJ

Time Warp: Republican Committee Chairman Blames Current Lack Of Job Creation On FDR And LBJ: "pLast month’s jobs report was undeniably dismal, and Republicans were quick to place blame on President Obama and the Democrats (even after they took credit for job gains that were made since January). But House Financial Service Committee Chairman Spencer Bachus (R-AL) decided today that blaming the current crop of Democrats isn’t quite enough. During [...]/p"

Friday, July 8, 2011

As Debt Talks Threaten Medicare, Social Security, Study Finds U.S. Spending $4 Trillion on War

As Debt Talks Threaten Medicare, Social Security, Study Finds U.S. Spending $4 Trillion on War

BREAKING: Undercover Investigation Confirms Bachmann Clinic Provides Discredited, Damaging ‘Ex-Gay’ Therapy

BREAKING: Undercover Investigation Confirms Bachmann Clinic Provides Discredited, Damaging ‘Ex-Gay’ Therapy: "pAn undercover investigation from a staff member of the organization Truth Wins Out has revealed that the clinic run by Dr. Marcus Bachmann, husband of Republican presidential hopeful Michele Bachmann, is providing discredited “ex-gay” reparative therapy.  Dr. Marcus Bachmann has been under intense scrutiny in recent weeks, after a ThinkProgress report documenting his past comments [...]/p"

Thursday, July 7, 2011

Republicans have a gun to the head of all Americans

"A promise must never be broken."
~Alexander Hamilton

Social Security and Medicare are under threat from "Boner" and the GOP. Millions of Americans lives will virtually be at risk. Republicans are negotiating the debt ceiling and possibility of America defaulting with a gun to the head of all Americans. Defaulting is totally unacceptable. It would have Alexander Hamilton rolling over in his grave. The full faith and credit of America has been put at risk by the Republicans.

***********

Can you believe it???? Orin Hatch thinks poor American should pay more taxes.

***********

Pelosi: Medicare, Social Security Benefit Cuts Are Line In The Sand On Debt Limit Bill"After a contentious White House meeting with President Obama and other Congressional leaders, House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi (D-CA) returned to the Capitol and drew an important red line: Members of her caucus won't vote for a grand bargain to raise the debt limit and reduce future deficits if the final deal includes cuts to Medicare and Social Security benefits -- and that means it probably won't pass. "
talkingpointsmemo.com


In Politico

"Liberal House Democrats wrote to President Barack Obama on Thursday pleading with him to take Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid off the table in debt negotiations.

In a letter to the president, members of the Congressional Progressive Caucus said any cuts to the major entitlement programs would harm families in a slow-recovering economy." politico.com


Liberal Dems on debt talks




























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